Talk:Coffee

What happened to the article

If Italian person brought lemons from China and squeezed them and added water to them and spread them in Europe does that mean that the country of origin of all lemon drinks is Italy? no of course read the source that I added it says the origin of coffee drinking is obscure and even if Yemenites were the first to drink coffee which is disputed it doesn't mean the country of origin of coffe can't be Ethiopia, edits like these are the reason most people do not trust Wikipedia --Ernne (talk) 18:10, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Provide a WP:RS source for the disputed origin. Zefr (talk) 18:15, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

--Ernne (talk) 18:24, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

References

That's a book about finance, written by a professor of finance. You're going to need something from a qualified historian. MrOllie (talk) 18:37, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

I added new source written by Professor of history https://sca.coffee/sca-news/25-magazine/issue-4/vessels-ages-25-magazine-issue-4

JONATHAN MORRIS is Research Professor in History at the University of Hertfordshire in the UK, and the European editor of Coffee: A Complete Guide to the Bean, the Beverage and the Industry, which has recently been republished in paperback. His new book Coffee: A Global History will be published in autumn 2018. --Ernne (talk) 18:45, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

That's not a true WP:RS source (published in a coffee association magazine), but it does confirm that Morris believes Yemen is the origin location in the 15th century, as stated in the article. Zefr (talk) 18:58, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Morris says in the article The exact origins of coffee drinking are still obscure and likely to remain so. --Ernne (talk) 19:07, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

That's consistent with what our article says: The earliest credible evidence of coffee-drinking or knowledge of the coffee tree appears... MrOllie (talk) 19:10, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

the origins of coffee drinking are mystery according to Karch's Pathology of Drug Abuse 221 page

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Karch_s_Pathology_of_Drug_Abuse/G9E7gfJq0KkC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=&pg=PA221&printsec=frontcover

Coffee domestication in Ethiopia was begun in the 9th century (Tucker, 2011). The Oromo people of Ethiopia are said to have discovered and used coffee for the first time (Pritchard ) https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Potentials_Challenges_and_Prospects_of_H/GrujEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=origins+of+coffee+ethiopia&pg=PT220&printsec=frontcover

--Ernne (talk) 19:21, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

More unreliable sources from non-Historians. MrOllie (talk) 19:28, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

It is known that the drink was invented by the Yemenis and coffee spread from the port of Mocha to all countries. To make it easier for you, let us assume that there is a Chinese person who took tea leaves from Italy and made tea and spread it. Does this mean that the tea drink originated from Italy? Although there are narratives and disagreements about the origin of the coffee tree, it does not matter where the tree originates from. What matters is who invented the drink that we drink today. Y000zygyy (talk) 12:41, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Just because the oldest writing talking about coffee was in Yemen does not mean it was 100% invented by Yemenis and the narratives and disagreements about the origin of the coffee tree are about how the coffee plant was introduced to Yemen from East Africa not where it was first cultivated, and your example that you stole from my example do no make any sense because the coffee plant was introduced to Yemen from East Africa not from Yemen to East Africa and even if the Italian person made lemon drink it does not mean Chinese people can not invent Lemon drinks independently forever --Ernne (talk) 15:35, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

None of these hypothetical arguments really matter - the Wikipedia article will continue to follow the reliable sources. And deleting those reliable sources with a unsupported claim of 'bias' is not constructive. Don't do that again. - MrOllie (talk) 15:46, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Other source written by graduate of Harvard Mark Pendergrast he mentions

It is possible that when the Ethiopians occupied Yemen they set up coffee plantations and cultivated it in Yemen

forms of coffee drinks before the 15th century before the Sufis in Yemen.

Once Ethiopians discovered coffee it was only a matter of matter of time until the drink spread through trade with Arabs across of the Red Sea.

The inventive Ethiopians quickly graduated to more palatable ways of getting their caffeine mix. They brewed the leaves and berries with boiled water as weak tea.

--Ernne (talk) 13:31, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Pendergrast, a person with no relevant academic qualifications, (yet again not a historian) does not overrule all the reliable sources we do have. And he doesn't appear to dispute the 15th century / Yemeni origins anyway. MrOllie (talk) 13:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

The first European coffee house opened in Venice in 1647.

Because coffee shops on the European part of ottoman empire were uneuropean? 2A02:3037:408:31C:2CE5:AFFF:FECE:E4E8 (talk) 00:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2024

For Citation 109

change https://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_10020,00.html to https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/true-brew-recipe-2103279 Pete-wbd (talk) 18:32, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks! Grayfell (talk) 00:13, 27 March 2024 (UTC)