Topic on User talk:ValterVB

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Hgkuper (talkcontribs)

Please restore the following items. They are all artists with paintings in the collection of the Stadtmuseum Berlin and are part of Wikidata:Dataset Imports/Previous version discussions#Berliner Malweiber, an import which was interrupted but hopefully can now be completed in the coming weeks.

Q44913967

Q44913975

Q44914018

Q44914033

Q44914040

Q44914554

Q44914569

Q44914576

Q44915133

Q44915140

Q44915173

Q44915191

Q44915196

Q44915443

Q44915452

Q44915466

Q44915473

Q44915481

Q44915489

Q44915495

Q44915758

Q44915780

Q44915786

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

No source, no sitelink, no backlink no data to understand who they are. I waited a while, then I canceled. Now if you add some reference I can restore them, but if they remain in the same state, it makes no sense to restore them

Hgkuper (talkcontribs)

Information regarding the painters can be found via the import page Wikidata:Dataset Imports/Previous version discussions#Berliner Malweiber. You can follow the link to the Google doc(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MX7ULmDhcES9gXugNUqHx-D7JIkErFtZcLOzVp8a204/edit#gid=1917218514), in the Google doc there are links to paintings by the painters referenced. It is curated data provided by the Stadtmuseum. I need the items/artists restored so I can link them to the paintings and finish the data import. How can I provide references when you have deleted the items?!

Hgkuper (talkcontribs)
Hgkuper (talkcontribs)

And – may I add – I am glad you waited a while, but it would have been even more helpful if you had sent me a message to request more information, before deleting the entries. Would that not have saved everybody more time?

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

I have deleted more of 150k item it's impossible warning all the editors (and not all this items was deleted by me). It is the task of those who create the elements, respect the rules of Wikidata:Notability. Now I have undelete allt hte item, but if these item remain inthis state will be deleted again. Need that you add reference to know what we are talking about, or some connection to the painting.

List:

Hgkuper (talkcontribs)

Thank you very much for restoring the items.

I understand the notability criteria, but the current issue raises some interesting questions about how much time should be permitted before items are deleted. I intend to post my suggestion on the Wikidata mailing list, but would be interested to know what you, as a Wikidata administrator, think of them first.

As mentioned, the data – comprising painters and their paintings – have been provided by the Stadtmuseum Berlin. All the painters (and painters) were part of an exhibition at the museum in 2016. I uploaded the data in question on 2017-12-07. Some of the painters – including the 23 you deleted on 2017-12-24 – did not have GND IDs. But a few of those without IDs were not deleted. And so it was that an interested Wikidata user (via Mix'n'match) and a Wikidata bot had enough time to complement my rudimentary upload and provide IDs from other systems on 2018-01-26 (see, for example, Q44914563 and Q44915124).

I realise the painters without any external reference do not satisfy the notability criteria in the strict sense, because they have a minimal online footprint (or does "publicly available references" also include offline reference texts?), but they are notable in the sense of being items curated by a cultural heritage institution. The whole issue is made more complicated by the fact that the painters in question are all female painters whose life and works span about 350 years and who have been excluded from the historical record due to their gender.

I would suggest changing the deletion process as follows:

  1. All items that are deemed not to satisfy the notability criteria should be marked as "pending deletion" (or something similar) and the uploader should be given time to respond. I think this would be a more positive community-oriented approach than delete first and ask questions later.
  2. It is my opinion that the review period should be six months, in order to give the supporting Wikidata systems and users time to complement the data (in which case the deletion either becomes moot or the uploader has been able to argue their case successfully).

I am not sure how realistic my proposal is – perhaps I have misunderstood the process and all its complexities. Wikidata at the time of writing contains 50.291.192 items. By my calculations 1.142.667 items have been deleted since the creation of Wikidata, which represents about 2% of Wikidata.

If that is correct, then providing uploaders more time before their items are deleted should not put too much of a strain on the system. Does that sound plausible?

Thanks again for your time.

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

I try to explain my pov (english isn't not my language): the problem in this specific cases is that the item was to much generic: human (Q5), sex or gender (P21), painter (Q1028181), no period of work, or place. It's impossible to do a search to check who is the person in the item. The more simple solution in this case is add a link to the list of this painters, can be a site or a book so on. For this item I have deleted them after 17 days, now I wait one month before delete items that I find not notable. 1 month is a time sufficient to complete task on a batch of items. You do not have to think about 1.1 milion of item deleted, but you have to think about the trend of not significant elements created, if we delete not notable items less quickly that the creation of them, Wikidata will fill of not notable item and we have only 57 admin, it's impossible warning all the people before deletion, and a lot of item are created by automatic system not directly connected to the users. They are the users who have to worry about the notability of objects, especially if they make massive insertions. If a job takes more than a month, something does not work and it is better to warn the administrators (sorry again for my english)