Topic on Talk:Talk pages project/Notifications/Flow

Topic subscription prototype feedback: Pelagic (2)

4
Pelagic (talkcontribs)

First impressions (brain dump, apologies if this is a bit too stream-of-consciousness)[1]

  • Created account successfully.
  • Noticed that there are no "subscribe" links for my own talk page. (makes sense, after finding that they do appear elsewhere)
  • The talk for Nellie Bly appears to be at Talk:Main Page, but no biggie. (https://patchdemo.wmflabs.org/wikis/77cda30f9d/wiki/Talk:Main_Page)
  • Subscribe links are easy to notice.
  • Typographic style for Subscribe / Unsubscribe feels different from other elements, but F12 inspect-element tells me it's 14px Arial bold and body text is 14px Arial. Maybe because "Edit source" is smaller and not bold, and there are three styles on the same line? (shrug)
  • No objection to having Subscribe aligned-right on same line with the heading. (Is there a gadget or option on w:en that puts the edit links on the right? How would that interact?)
  • Tried page with useskin=timeless, think it actually looks better than vector (maybe the narrower column width, or maybe the way the different weights and styles of Segoe UI relate versus Arial).
  • I like how the text and mouseover colours are different for "Unsubscribe".Stands out subtly without being intrusive.
  • Instructions say "Write your answers to the questions listed in the "Sharing feedback" section below" but I couldn't find that section/post. (I feel like I'm doing it wrong, but scroll around and can't see it.)
  • Fired up an in-private browser and posted anon (which I feel okay about because the 172.16.x.x address doesn't expose my home IP as discussed previously elsewhere, and the preview shows my username as a 172.16 for reassurance)
  • Switched back to first window, now it says logged out but, whatever, logged back in. 3 notices. Welcome to PatchDemo, we're glad you're here. You just made your first edit; thank you, and welcome. [IP] replied in "Moving article". Clicked the third (top) tile/item/whatever you want to call it. Noticed that it not only took me to the section but scrolled down to near the reply (?). Clicked back on Notices and see that the item is marked as read but still visible. Does prod Echo do that? Maybe it seems different because I normally have too many unreads.
  • Switch back to anon window. notice that as a not-logged-in IP user I still see "Subscribe" links, and they are wrapped to the next line. Subscribe to see what will happen.
  • Reply to unwatched topic (i.e. anon replies to topic not watched by Pelagic). Check back with notices and I did get a notification for an unwatched topic (unexpected). The page now says I'm subscribed (also unexpected). Did I mess up, or was there some weird interaction between the logged-in browser and the in-private not-logged-in browser?
  • Time to take a break for now. There are some limitations to testing with two browser sessions on the same computer and IP.
  • But I can't let it go. Back to anon window, refresh page, Subscribe links have disappeared. Doubting my sanity now, wish I'd taken a screenshot. Check that I'm definitely not subscribed to "Remarkable translation effort". Post anon reply (172.16.0.164). Go back to logged-in window and refresh. No notifications, that's better.
  • Check watchlist. Nothing much there. That's expected based on previous discussions I've seen which indicate this would involve Echo notifications not Watchlist entries. Good for me; I don't work my watchlist much, but others work differently.

Overall: generally works; a little weirdness, but probably hard to replicate that. Sorry if too much detail, but instead of paying testers to record their narration on usertesting.com I can channel the underworld for free...

Question: How can I see all the topics that I'm subscribed to and manage them? Do I need to wait 'til I get a notification then click through and unsubscribe from there?

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

First impressions (brain dump, apologies if this is a bit too stream-of-consciousness)[1]

@Pelagic, this is great. Comments and questions in response to what you've shared below...

Follow up questions for you

Noticed that there are no "subscribe" links for my own talk page. (makes sense, after finding that they do appear elsewhere)

Can you share what leads you to think "subscribe" likes NOT appearing on your own user talk page "makes sense"?

Reason I ask: we made a couple of assumptions when deciding on this behavior and so we're curious about how those assumptions compare with what you intuitively thought.


Typographic style for Subscribe / Unsubscribe feels different from other elements, but F12 inspect-element tells me it's 14px Arial bold and body text is 14px Arial. Maybe because "Edit source" is smaller and not bold, and there are three styles on the same line? (shrug)

Good spot. What do you think about this updated design that, we intend, to be more consistent from other elements on the page?


No objection to having Subscribe aligned-right on same line with the heading. (Is there a gadget or option on w:en that puts the edit links on the right? How would that interact?)

Can you share a link to the gadget you have in mind?

Note: I wonder whether this potential conflict is "moot" considering how we're planning for the Subscribe/Unsubscribe affordances to now be adjacent to the edit links that appear immediately next to section headings. See the updated design for reference.


Reply to unwatched topic (i.e. anon replies to topic not watched by Pelagic). Check back with notices and I did get a notification for an unwatched topic (unexpected). The page now says I'm subscribed (also unexpected). Did I mess up, or was there some weird interaction between the logged-in browser and the in-private not-logged-in browser?

This sounds unexpected. Before filing a ticket for this, can you please confirm the steps below describe what you experienced?

  1. Open two browser windows.
  2. In one browser window, you are logged in as User:Pelagic. In the other browser window, you are NOT logged in.
  3. In the private browser window where you are NOT logged in, you posted a comment (call it "Comment 1") to "Topic A" (made up name)
  4. ❗️ In the browser window where you are logged in as User:Pelagic, you receive a notification via Echo for "Comment 1" in "Topic A" despite User:Pelagic NOT having been subscribed to "Topic A"
  5. ✅ In the browser window where you are logged in as User:Pelagic, you reload the talk page "Topic A" appears on and notice you are now "Unsubscribed" to "Topic A"

Comments

Instructions say "Write your answers to the questions listed in the "Sharing feedback" section below" but I couldn't find that section/post. (I feel like I'm doing it wrong, but scroll around and can't see it.)

You are NOT doing it wrong :) This was a mistake I made and one @Patriccck just pointed out to me as well.

Hopefully it's fixed now. See "2. Sharing feedback > 3. Write your answers to the 'Feedback questions' below."


Clicked back on Notices and see that the item is marked as read but still visible. Does prod Echo do that?

If by "still visible" you mean the below, then I think production Echo behaves this way as well.

  1. Click the "Notice" (📥) icon
  2. See the notification you clicked sometime before "Step 1" appears within the dropdown with a gray background

Question: How can I see all the topics that I'm subscribed to and manage them? Do I need to wait 'til I get a notification then click through and unsubscribe from there?

For now, it is not possible to see all the topics you are subscribed to. With this said, it is something we are thinking about introducing (see phab:T273342).

If you have ideas for what questions you would expect this view to help you answer and what actions you would expect it to allow you to take, we'd be keen to hear them!

Pelagic (talkcontribs)
  • Can’t subscribe on my own talk page makes sense because I already get alerts for posts on my talk page. Though there are other ways this could be done, e.g. one type of alert for new section/topic + a different alert for a reply + topics are subscribed by default and you get a link to unsubscribe. Would people want to unsubscribe from topics on their own talk when they could simply delete or archive them instead? Now I wonder, for other talk pages (not my own): would I want to watch the whole page but unsubscribe from specific topics? Should there be a subscribe-all link?
    • I agree with what you wrote at T276996#6909778, still reading the rest of the ticket/task.
  • (Un)subscribe link style and position Both have their merits. I really appreciate all the work Jess is doing with iterating over designs and testing. On the one hand, it's logical having the actions "edit | unsubscribe" together. On the other, having the links on the right, with different colours for subscribe/unsubscribe allows me to scan the page and see which topics are subscribed. That's less applicable where not all discussions are short, though. I suspect people may find the new design more natural, but not sure how you can get more opinions. Have you considered a ⭐️ marker to the left of the section heading, or some indicator in the ToC?
  • Gadget for edit links on right found it at English Wikipedia – Preferences – Gadgets – Appearance – Move section [edit] links to the right side of the screen. Haven't tried it myself, and I don’t know if it's installed on other wikis.
  • Notice for unwatched topic I'll retry and let you know. Rereading what I wrote, looks like I couldn't reproduce it at the time.
  • Read but still visible yes, you’re right. With a small screen and on a wiki where I have a lot of unreads, the read items are scrolled offscreen. Was just more noticeable when there are only a few items in the list, and the newly-read item didn’t change position.
PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I'm sorry for the belated response, @Pelagic; comments below...


Can’t subscribe on my own talk page makes sense → because I already get alerts for posts on my talk page

Understood. It's helpful to see how this assumptions we've made line up with what you instinctively thought.

Should there be a subscribe-all link?

We share this question and so too does @Patriccck; I've added this to the "Issues" table in T275232's task description.

(Un)subscribe link style and position → Both have their merits. I really appreciate all the work Jess is doing with iterating over designs and testing.

@JKlein (WMF) will be glad to hear this ^ _ ^

On the one hand, it's logical having the actions "edit | unsubscribe" together. On the other, having the links on the right, with different colours for subscribe/unsubscribe allows me to scan the page and see which topics are subscribed. That's less applicable where not all discussions are short, though. I suspect people may find the new design more natural, but not sure how you can get more opinions.

These are the trade offs that have come to mind for us as well. Since I posted last, we decided for the Subscribe/Unsubscribe affordance to be located on the right side of the page [in LTR languages]. You can find the thinking that influenced this approach in T279149#7064405.


Have you considered a ⭐️ marker to the left of the section heading, or some indicator in the ToC?

We did consider the "⭐️" marker and ultimately decided against reusing so as not to lead people into mistakenly thinking "Watching" and "Subscribing" are currently related. The thinking behind the decision to treat these features as discrete, for now, can be found in T279498.

Gadget for edit links on right → found it at English Wikipedia – Preferences – Gadgets – Appearance – Move section [edit] links to the right side of the screen

Thank you for pointing this out – you sharing this gadget is the first I've heard of it.

By the way: are you aware of an easy way to see how popular a gadget is across projects?

I'm aware of Special:GadgetUsage, although based on what I currently know, I assume that to do the above I'd need to visit each project individually...

Notice for unwatched topic → I'll retry and let you know. Rereading what I wrote, looks like I couldn't reproduce it at the time.

Understood – thank you.

Read but still visible → yes, you’re right. With a small screen and on a wiki where I have a lot of unreads, the read items are scrolled offscreen. Was just more noticeable when there are only a few items in the list, and the newly-read item didn’t change position.

Mmm, I see. Even still, would it be accurate for me to understand part of what you're saying above as: "It can be difficult to differentiate between notifications you have and have not read within Echo's dropdown?"

Reply to "Topic subscription prototype feedback: Pelagic (2)"