Topic on Talk:Talk pages project/Notifications/Flow

Topic subscription prototype feedback: Sunpriat

6
Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

notes before the test

  • If there are a lot of notifications, they will spam the list and it will be more difficult to pay attention to something important, users will simply be afraid to use it, the list needs to merge its elements.
  • I saw something like this in the Flow. Didn't look very helpful. Probably I would like to know from "when" the answers begin (date, how old the messages are there) just by looking at the merging notification.
  • Users need rules so they can read them and know when notifications are triggered. To know how to proceed so that the notification is guaranteed and why (or how to do it if you need it) is not sent. (like a Manual:Reverts#Conditions for execution)

after the test

  • Pressed subscribe, pressed spacebar to scroll down the text screen, unsubscribe occurred. The focus remained on the button. If you click on the star for adding to the watchlist, then when you press the spacebar, the star will not be activated again as an unwatch - it has no focus. Should work the same as the watchlist star.
  • It is unusual to see the line not all the way to the right edge. This is some kind of gap in the border and the topics begin to merge, connect (it looks like a wikipedia:Template:Outdent for moving a comment thread, there is also an incomplete line). The line must be full width in order to be guaranteed to split for dosing information.
  • When commenting with a participant's notification (@), the notification appears in a different (left) notification icon (some did not understand the need to separate notifications before. Now notifications look of the same type but appear under different icons - this is a bit difficult). If you click on the notification (@), it goes to the section heading. It was expected that it will also scroll further down to the comment (scroll from new notifications is more convenient).
  • I was afraid that the list would be spammed unread, but everything turned out to be grouped. But when it was marked as read, now the list was spammed with the read. It was expected that what was marked as read would also group or disappear.
  • And if you are subscribed to several topics, then, after being marked as read, the list is a complete mess of other people's nicknames, as if there is someone's chat. There is no "you" in the text of notifications, so they look like a completely alien mini-chat.
  • When I click on the notification, it scrolls immediately to the comment, but at the same time the line of the previous comment is visible, and if there is such a short comment, then it seems that this is for the above comment - this can be confusing. In the Flow, the border on the left was highlighted in color after opening from notifications and it was immediately clear to which comment I went. It may be better for the comment to be immediately the first line at the beginning (top) of the screen.
  • The discussion goes from top to bottom. Notifications go from bottom to top. In a collapsed group, I would like to see the natural order from top to bottom. This is confusing when you see the beginning of the lines and read/view them upside down, but they are in fact in the opposite order.
  • I made a subsection in the topic and did not receive a notification. https://patchdemo.wmflabs.org/wikis/77cda30f9d/w/index.php?title=Talk:Citation_needed_example&diff=prev&oldid=91 If someone summarizes the topic, then I will not know about it.
  • And there are no signature buttons for the subsection, notifications from the subsection are not received.
  • Someone previously expressed a desire to receive notifications from replies to their replies. That is, for example, the ability to filter notifications only if the (::,Ā :::)replies are deeper in the thread of your (:)reply, and other people's (:)threads are less interesting.
PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@Sunpriat we appreciate you taking the time to try out the prototype and document the thoughts in brought to mind.

Below are responses to the first half of the comments you shared. Later this week, I am going to comment again with responses to the second half of the comments you shared...

Follow up questions for you

1. Probably I would like to know from "when" the answers begin (date, how old the messages are there) just by looking at the merging notification.

What is "...the merging notification." you are referring to above?


2. It is unusual to see the line not all the way to the right edge...This is some kind of gap in the border and the topics begin to merge, connect...

Noted. I've documented this issue in phab:T275232.

In the meantime, can you share a bit more detail about what you mean by the topics merging? Are you suggesting that it's difficult to tell sections apart without the topic borderline extending all the way?


3. When commenting with a participant's notification (@), the notification appears in a different (left) notification icon (some did not understand the need to separate notifications before. Now notifications look of the same type but appear under different icons - this is a bit difficult)

I want to make sure I am accurately understanding what you are saying above. Are you saying that you find it confusing/unintuitive that notifications can appear in two places depending what kind of notifications they are? For example, if you are "pinged," you will see it appear in the "šŸ””" icon (the software refers to these as "alerts") whereas if a new comment is posted in a section you are subscribed to, it will appear in the "šŸ“„" icon (the software refers to these as "notices")?


4. If you click on the notification (@), it goes to the section heading. It was expected that it will also scroll further down to the comment (scroll from new notifications is more convenient).

Can you please read phab:T253082 and let me know whether that ticket describes the functionality you are describing above?

Comments in response to things you shared

5. Users need rules so they can read them and know when notifications are triggered. To know how to proceed so that the notification is guaranteed and why (or how to do it if you need it) is not sent.

We agree, people who are curious need to be able to read how the feature works. We will, most likely, document this information on the Talk pages project/Feature summary page.


6. Pressed subscribe, pressed spacebar to scroll down the text screen, unsubscribe occurred.

Good catch. I've documented this issue in phab:T275232.

Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

@PPelberg (WMF) 1. When there are several messages from the same topic, they are shown as one message (group) (when you click on which a drop-down list with all messages appears), they are combined into one logical flow or as a node in a mindmap. Visually merged into a coherent dialogue. It can be a dumb button "unfold me" or a slightly smart button somehow useful itself summarizing its content into itself.

2. When the line is at its full length, when viewed from top to bottom - oh, here is the line, then this is the end, everything is simple. The new Vector has a fixed width and a lot of white space on the left and right (1920x1080). I look from top to bottom - there is no line in the right half of the screen, on the right side these topics are visually united, connect and continue each other, I have to look further along the left side, additionally compare the top topic and the bottom topic and the line between them - this takes a little more time and unnecessary actions.

3. Perhaps in English the difference in words is more understandable, perhaps the situation is worsened by a less distinguishable translation, as very similar synonyms. Imagine that instead of alerts|notices there is the same word (or there are no words, only icons bell|tray) notifications|notifications, and here it is difficult for many to understand how what comes to the first list differs from the second.
I subscribed to the topic, I receive mini-messages in the right list, then the user pinged me, a message appeared in the left list under the bell, but there is no message in the right, as if he pinged from the topic without my subscription. Everything related to the topic was transferred to the right stack in one place, then a part strongly related to the topic appeared in the left stack, while nothing new appeared in the right stack, and then there is a feeling that something went wrong, that there was a sorting error, that something was lost and did not come to the right stack.
I was expecting something to appear in the right column. I understand that displaying +1 at the bell and +1 at the tray at the same time would be a visual overflow. It can be +1 at the bell and 0 at the tray. But an element should appear in the right column - this shows that the message appeared in the subscribed topic, and, for example, this element has an additional icon bell icon that it was with a ping (it is immediately clear that the +1 was sent to the left column instead and nothing was missing in the right column, no missed incoming messages).

4. Almost, but here with the requirement/clarification that the user experience should not differ. I expect to see the message in exactly the same place on the screen and start reading it in the same place on the screen as when I click on the messages from the subscribed topics from the right column.

5. Sometimes users ask in the wiki forum / in discussions why the ping of another participant did not work, why some tag was not set for editing - except for curiosity, this is the need to send them to read somewhere via a link or to provide a qualified answer.

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

1. When there are several messages from the same topic, they are shown as one message (group) (when you click on which a drop-down list with all messages appears), they are combined into one logical flow or as a node in a mindmap. Visually merged into a coherent dialogue. It can be a dumb button "unfold me" or a slightly smart button somehow useful itself summarizing its content into itself.

Ah, now [I think] I know what you are referring to (see this screenshot)! Assuming I am understanding what you are describing above accurately, I think we have implemented the "merging" functionality you are referring to in phab:T275949.

Here's how it works right now:

  1. When you have notifications for multiple comments from the same "topic," you will see them merged/grouped into one item within Echo that you can expand.
  2. That "one item" will show you: i) the number of comments you are being notified about, ii) the title of the topic in which they were posted and, iii) the username of the person who posted the most recent comment.
  3. You can open the "one item" to see all of the notifications contained within it by clicking the "expand" icon. You can see what the icon looks like by visiting this page and searching for the word "expand".

Please let me know if anything above prompts new questions and/or does not match up with what you would expect.


2. When the line is at its full length, when viewed from top to bottom - oh, here is the line, then this is the end, everything is simple. The new Vector has a fixed width and a lot of white space on the left and right (1920x1080). I look from top to bottom - there is no line in the right half of the screen, on the right side these topics are visually united, connect and continue each other, I have to look further along the left side, additionally compare the top topic and the bottom topic and the line between them - this takes a little more time and unnecessary actions.

I see. Thank you for explaining this in more detail. We've adjusted the prototype so that the horizontal line that runs underneath ==H2== sections is not interrupted by the Subscribe/Unsubscribe link. I think this addresses the issue you were referring to, but if not, please let me know.


3. Perhaps in English the difference in words is more understandable, perhaps the situation is worsened by a less distinguishable translation, as very similar synonyms. Imagine that instead of alerts|notices there is the same word (or there are no words, only icons bell|tray) notifications|notifications, and here it is difficult for many to understand how what comes to the first list differs from the second...

You described this in a wonderfully vivid way. While I think the sorting issue you are describing above is out of scope for this particular project, here is the ticket in Phabricator where this issue is being tracked so we do not lose sight of it: T142981.

We'd value you commenting on that ticket if you think there are important details that are missing.

4. Almost, but here with the requirement/clarification that the user experience should not differ. I expect to see the message in exactly the same place on the screen and start reading it in the same place on the screen as when I click on the messages from the subscribed topics from the right column.

You want to be taken to the precise location on the page where the content you are being notified about exists, regardless of what kind of content it is...understood.

Here is a ticket where we can track the work involved with implemented this: phab:T282029.

5. Sometimes users ask in the wiki forum / in discussions why the ping of another participant did not work, why some tag was not set for editing - except for curiosity, this is the need to send them to read somewhere via a link or to provide a qualified answer.

Are you able to share what "did not work" means in this context?

Are the people you referring to talking about pinging someone and that person not responding? Are they talking about pinging someone and doubting whether the person they are pinging was actually notified? Something else?

Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

@PPelberg (WMF) 1. Yes, it's about a bundle. But the key point was in "from when". A similar flow-notification-reply-bundle was in Notifications/Message audit (2014), after adding the "subscribe" function it was rewritten to https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=MediaWiki:Flow-notification-reply-bundle/qqq . There was also "x replied in y topic. last time". Comments can be imagined as hot (new) and cold (old). The bundle always shows the hot end of the queue and this provokes quick but harsh responses. Often you need to answer after thinking for a while, but not too long. Or to see the date of the oldest message in order to understand the time interval of the "reader's debt".

3. The key point was that notifications from one topic are strongly logically connected, and appearing in another column breaks this connection. Importance qualifier lost. The topic I subscribed to is important to me. But the ping notification remains similar to all other pings. I expected the connectivity to be preserved, for example, the text "you are subscribed to this topic" or the star icon appears in the ping notification, so that this ping stands out from the rest as more important to me.

5. "and doubting whether" e.g. Q: I updated the comment, but why hasn't the notification been sent? A: you must write both nickname and signature Help:Notifications/Types#Mentions Q: but I added both a nickname and a fresh signature A: you should do it on a new line Manual:Echo

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Yes, it's about a bundle. But the key point was in "from when"...Often you need to answer after thinking for a while, but not too long. Or to see the date of the oldest message in order to understand the time interval of the "reader's debt".

@Sunpriat: can you share how you would expect the notification bundling to work? I ask this wondering whether you describing this will help me to more fully understand the issue you are referring to above.


...the text "you are subscribed to this topic" or the star icon appears in the ping notification, so that this ping stands out from the rest as more important to me.

Ah, I see. I've filed a ticket for what you are describing here: T283302.

Please comment on the ticket if you think it ought to be adjusted in any way.


"and doubting whether" e.g. Q: I updated the comment, but why hasn't the notification been sent? A: you must write both nickname and signature Help:Notifications/Types#Mentions Q: but I added both a nickname and a fresh signature A: you should do it on a new line Manual:Echo

These example questions are helpful; thank you for sharing them.

Would it be accurate for me to understand you as saying that there is a need for a single place to be able to direct people to where they can understand what is required for a ping to be sent successfully?


By the way: I appreciate how patient you have been in engaging with the follow up questions I've asked.

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